Like Emily said, I'm Andy.
I'm the product manager for the all things Red five and in the
HVAC enterprise here at DIBT, at Delta IBT.
Before I start, I wanna just see where everybody is with our
product knowledge,
because I don't I wanna make sure that I can tailor this
depending on who's here.
So if you use your thumbs up button,
give me a thumbs up for anybody here that's never heard of
the Red five product line.
Okay.
So either people can't find the thumbs up or they've all heard of it.
So that's good. Oh, we got one, and we got a heart.
So I like the I like the heart. That makes me feel good.
Okay. Good.
So there's a few people that have never heard of it.
So I'm gonna explain a little bit of what RED five is,
and I'll give you a bit of a, background,
where RED five came from and where we are now.
So today,
we're gonna talk a little bit about our past that'll help
give you some context, to where we're going in the future.
And we're gonna talk a little bit about our Red five pro
program, the Red five field VAV.
Yes. MSTP is still a thing.
Red five edge VAV t one l.
And, I mean, Ethernet on twisted pair? Get out of here.
Red five unitary,
that's gonna be our brand new product line coming up in the future.
And, we'll show you a quick road map of when all these products are
gonna be aligned and when you can expect them,
and we'll follow it up with a q and a at the end.
And as Emily said, just please go ahead and type your chat,
type your question into the chat,
and we'll address them at the end.
Normally, I like to address comments and questions in real
time, but we just have too many people here.
So it'll be easier just to address them at the end.
So this is our current system architecture.
We are going to be playing around in this area today.
We're not really gonna be talking too much about system
level controllers or,
you know, enterprise software or anything like that.
We're gonna be talking about terminal units and unitary products today.
So that means there are VAV, VAV, controllers in,
specifically and fan coil controllers later on today.
But first, I wanna give you a little bit of history.
So back in the nineties,
we had a VAV line called the IZC, or if you're from the US,
the IZC.
That stood for the IntelliZone controller.
IntelliZone with an I.
And this was our old school VAV
controller ran on a protocol called Micronet,
which was like a twisted twisted pair cabling,
and it was a predecessor to the to the old to our
BACnet VAV controller.
So we had that, you know,
running all through the nineties pretty much until the
early two thousands when it was superseded by the
DVC v three two two and v three zero four.
So this is our first foray into the into the BACnet MSTP world.
And,
this has really been a flagship product.
I mean, look at the the timeline.
That should give you a hint of when we're gonna phase this product out.
But we've got twenty six years of run time on this particular
VAV controller.
So it really has been our our bread and butter,
and it's a flagship product for us over the years.
So we don't take it lightly when we know that we have to do
a successor.
And it really I mean, I'm not I wouldn't be here today,
talking to you guys if it weren't for the DVC product
line, I'm to be honest with you.
There's hundreds of hundreds of thousands of these out there in the real world.
Around the, mid twenty tens ish, we came out with a,
what we call the Ntelezone.
That's Ntele with an e.
This is a VAV controller that was
used kind of in in a more fixed
algorithm kind of scenario.
A lot of these were used in cost sensitive applications.
And,
you know, we're still we're still working on it,
but we have to start thinking about the successor to this
product line as well.
We still sell a lot of IntelliZone,
but there they are.
They are getting long in the tooth now over ten years.
I I still refer to this as the new VAP controller,
and we're in twelve years.
So this will start to get phased out, later this decade,
as the RED five products come in.
So what's new then?
So I've told you about what's going on in the past where we've been.
Well,
last year, we introduced, the RED five VAV controller.
This is one of Emily's taglines, compact and mighty.
And we get we say mighty with a fist.
This is our new flagship VAV product line.
And I'll tell you something kinda funny about it,
and I'm gonna tell you a little bit more about it in a second.
But RED five VAV controllers now account for
over fifty four percent of all of our VAV sales.
So that tells you a little bit about the adoption of this product.
It's only been around for, well, ten months now, and,
it's already overtaken, what we're doing with the DVC products.
So a lot of the intent behind the RED five product line was
to build a controller that was powerful enough that could
grow with your building over time.
We wanna say goodbye to the rip and replace cycle where a
product maybe only have may only have five or ten years.
And we know that our industry
changes and and especially now here we are in twenty twenty
six that, we've got technology is growing so quickly,
and there's new needs.
There's AI. Everyone's using buzzwords.
The impact on on the network infrastructure and
the network requirements have directed us to
build a product that can be scalable with your building
over time, and that's why the Red five VAV was born.
It's still lay legacy compatible,
so it could still coexist and play nice with older products,
DVCs, ezone.
But the intent is for it to grow over time,
as your building needs grow.
Red five VAV has, a lot of
a lot of the underlying parts of the Red five
VAV is compliance with guideline thirty six.
We have built in databases.
So if you buy a Red five VAV controller,
you can set it up before you even power it on.
You can tell it what VAV algorithm you want it to use.
You power it up, away you go,
and you can even edit those programs as you go.
So it's kinda like having a the dreaded fixed algorithm,
but you can still program it at the same time if you need to.
Zero drift differential pressure sensor,
the ability to, have sustainability metrics.
We've we've unlocked a lot of features through our PG Python interface.
So you've got GCL to do your control.
You got Python to do your IoT.
So with all these bells and whistles,
and in order to support that,
we have to have the power under the hood to do it.
And that's what we mean by a scalable controller over time.
On top of that, we all you know,
we have to stick to the basics as well.
So we wanna make sure that commissioning is easier,
that you can, improve your installation times and get
those products in and get off the job quicker.
And we do that by reducing your ladder trips,
giving guys a bidirectional flow sensor.
So now even with the fifty percent chance of getting it
wrong, when you know what the, the high and the low side is,
you don't have to worry about that anymore.
You can just hook the tubes up however you need to,
and the controller will know
how to scale that pressure correctly.
And as I mentioned before,
we've got a lot of VAV applications.
We used to try Emily and I used to try and figure out how many
different applications we had built into the controller.
And we started with fifty, then it was fifty five,
then it was sixty eight, and I I don't even know anymore.
So we'll just let's just say there's lots of VAV
applications built in all the way from guideline thirty six
deep dive applications all the way just to standard basic
VAV, algorithms.
So you guys can either program it yourself using your own,
or you can use ours and edit them however,
however you see fit.
And that can all be enabled just by the scan of your phone
onto the controller.
I've got several VAVs running in my office that I had fully
set up and commission or not commissioned,
fully set up and configured with algorithms before I even opened the box.
So what does this look like in context of of of a whole BMS
network or for a Delta network?
Well, this image shows you essentially three different network types.
The blue line up here let me get my little, highlighter out.
This blue line up here, that's,
your standard BACnet MSTP cable and your twenty two
gauge twisted pair.
The orange line down here,
I'm gonna talk about that in a moment.
That's a t one l, network. Again, it's on twisted pair.
Could be a legacy infrastructure,
but it's Ethernet carried over twisted pair.
And then the bottom one is your standard,
cat five, cat six Ethernet.
But you'll notice that these products are all in a daisy chain.
All these VAV controllers are in a daisy chain configuration.
So starting last year,
let's just look at the Ethernet side of things for now.
Our standard old Ethernet, tried and true.
We know everything about it. We've we're we're used to it.
That's what we call our Red five Edge VAV controller.
This is our dual Ethernet controller,
with bypass relays.
We have two models.
We have one, the v one hundred, which is cooling only,
and the v four forty,
which has the extended IO for reheat and maybe picking up, like,
base heat baseboard heaters or or whatever it is that you need to pick up.
Standard twenty four volt AC DC powered yada yada yada.
But a cool thing about it is the fact that we've added the
ability to be a BACnetSC node.
And this is basically going into anything that's a v four
IP controller, the capability of being a BACnetSC node.
It still supports things like LinkNet for your LinkNet
sensors, for your stats.
It has the built in, Bulimo actuator with feedback.
So you've got analog control over the fee over the actuator with,
analog feedback so you know what what position the
actuator's in.
And we released this guy, last year,
last July is when we were finally able to ship it,
July twenty twenty five.
So this is really our flagship VAV.
It was the first one we released and it took off like
gangbusters when we released it.
And as I mentioned, we're like it's accounting for over
fifty percent now of our total VAV sales.
So that was the Edge.
Now I wanna talk to you guys about
a relatively new VAV controller that we just released last
December, and that is the Field.
And it's an MSTP controller.
This is this is really the the DVC replacement now.
Again, this comes in your cooling only model and your extended IO reheat model.
But the difference with this particular controller is it's
backed at MSTP only.
It supports LinkNet, and importantly,
it can coexist with legacy products or other third party
MSTP devices.
We released this in December twenty twenty five.
So I just wanted to remind you guys that, you know,
this sort of this product kinda snuck out right at Christmas
time without a lot of fanfare.
So I want you guys to consider this as the relaunch of
the Red five field VAV controller.
So, Emily, I don't know if you've got, like,
a a burst emoji you can send out
for the official Red five VAV field relaunch.
So we're starting to we're this this controller is starting to
pick up a lot of steam.
It's probably the second highest sale,
VAV controller sitting in our our arsenal now.
So it proves to us that as much as we'd like to see MSTP go
away, MSTP is just it's it's slowly
dragging itself out there.
It's it'll it'll I think it'll be like Charlton Heston.
You know?
The MSTP can be removed from its cold dead hands,
But it's still there, and it's still very much a thing,
and we still need to do a product that that can run on v
on MSTP for those sites.
There's a lot of MSTP out there,
and we can't just forsake it.
But even though this doesn't have the IP controller bells
and whistles, it doesn't have you know, obviously,
doesn't have embedded graphics.
It doesn't have,
you know, IP capability, but it still has the same
power under the hood as the IP controller.
So it's got the built in selectable GCL databases.
It's got the the, bidirectional pressure sensor.
It's got, the zero drift differential pressure sensor.
So it it it's a pretty extremely powerful controller
for, a guy that's just sitting on an m s MSTP network.
So that's the field VAV.
That is the MSTP controller.
So welcome to our world
Field VAV.
Now we like saying when we when we started launching all of our
RED five products, you know, we get the streamlined install,
we get the future proof design, the energy efficiency,
flexibility, BACnet secure connect, and it's the last
VAV you will ever need.
That's why I've highlighted that.
It's the last VAV you'll ever need.
But wait. There's more.
There must be something else coming down the line.
So maybe the field and the edge wasn't the last VAV
you'll ever need.
What if I told you you could add performance to existing
legacy infrastructure?
What if I told you you could bring the building to the
future without having to rewire it?
That's my sales voice.
What if I told you you can reuse your existing r s four
eighty five twisted pair lawn cabling,
avoiding disruptive expensive cabling overhauls,
seamlessly replace MSTP or lawn works.
It's all true with the RED five v a v t one l.
This is a brand spanking new, v a v controller.
It's been in beta since February twenty twenty six,
so it's been running in beta for a couple of months now.
We've got, I think we have four good beta sites out there that have been running this.
This product is is essentially exactly the same as
the standard Red five Edge v a b controller,
only it doesn't use, r g forty five connectors.
It now uses t one l connectors.
So it's running ten base t one l Ethernet
over twisted pair, and that's what these ports here are.
These are the t one l ports.
And what you'll do is you'll all your cable on
MSTP. I'm getting a bit ahead of myself.
And you'll terminate it as t one l.
So this, again, is an IoT ready controller.
It has all the built in selectable GCL database.
Everything that all the other VAV controllers have,
except it's on t one l rather than standard Ethernet.
It'll support embedded graphics, BACnet Secure
Connect, and there's some interesting,
side effects for having BACnet SC and the level that you can
now have full
encryption on your network.
Release coming coming soon.
We're in quarter two of twenty twenty six now.
We're just basically finishing off our beta cycle,
cleaning up any last little remaining bugs that we know about,
and then we'll be releasing this next month.
And, so far, we're looking really good.
We're, we're on track to meet this date.
So there will be an announcement soon.
I think Emily's even behind that announcement. Are you?
Soon. Couple weeks. A week? A week.
Yeah.
So in order to utilize in order
to utilize the t one l, VAV controller,
you'll also need this little guy, the con t one l,
and I'll show you what that architecture looks like in a second.
The VAV itself, I'll go back, has the built in t one l,
connectors,
But you can add that t one l to any network,
whether it's a Delta network like a plus controller or
whether you wanna just connect them to a standard switch,
BMS switch, you can do that through the con t one l.
So I just I didn't wanna make a big deal about this.
We've done webinars on this.
I've done, training sessions on this and and breakout sessions, etcetera.
But I just wanted to remind you that this little utensil
exists, and it allows you to basically bring t one
l to any, standard,
Ethernet network.
You just have to you just have to connect this to it basically
converts your, cat five, cat six to a t one l.
This has been released since October twenty five,
October twenty twenty five.
And I really wanted to point out that it is system agnostic,
meaning it doesn't have to attach to a Delta controller.
It can attach to any Ethernet, product.
So if we were to take a network like this,
I'm gonna pick on the DVC for a second here.
So this orange cable there is your standard low cap
shielded balanced twisted pair,
twenty two or twenty four gauge,
and you'll notice that it's in a daisy chain configuration.
Well, you can leave all that cable there.
Whoops. I got too many whoops.
It's it's played my animations without me wanting to let me
just back this up here.
There we go.
I've added the CON t one l to a plus controller,
and then without having to replace all that cable,
we were just able to replace the devices.
So now the benefit of doing this is we've brought in IoT
capability and network security without having to replace the
infrastructure, the cabling infrastructure.
Now one of the things we did have to do is we have to re terminate
at each point because you can't run t m t one l in, like,
a standard multidrop daisy chain.
So you have to re terminate each each,
connector
and then separate it,
and then we handle the pass through through a set of,
pass through relays in the controller.
So if a controller drops offline,
this line will still be maintained,
and the communication of your downstream devices will still be there.
So what this gives us is
encryption right down to the terminal controller level
through BACnet Secure Connect.
So each one of those devices is now a BACnet Secure Connect
node, and they can,
they can lock in and be part of the network with any BACnet SC hub,
whether that's a plus controller or your IntelliWeb server.
Also gives you the ability to unlock the power of Python,
the Python on PG, and to give you IT capabilities
such as MQTT, or you can reach out to web
services like
weather services or maybe Cisco routers or whatever it is you need to do.
That's all unlocked through Python.
And that's now right down to the terminal unit level or
unitary level, which is pretty cool.
Incidentally, each one of those controllers also has its own embedded web
servers so you can have a a graphic for each VAV box on each device.
And that's all, you know,
without having to replace the full blown infrastructure of
the of the network.
So this is what it looks like when you look at it from the
grand scheme of things.
So we've talked about the MSTP network.
We've talked about a standard cat five network,
and now we've talked about a t one l network.
And we're seeing more and more of these,
flat network architectures.
It's a big push here internally at Delta.
We're coming up with new guidelines,
revising old guidelines on how you deal with
large flat networks and network best practices.
So keep your eye open for your email
for an email from us on how we're addressing these these
larger flat networks.
Incidentally, I wanna ask you guys a pop quiz.
So get your little thumb emoji out,
and I wanna see a thumbs up.
This is a yes or no question.
Is this this is a pop quest pop quiz, guys.
Is this device here that I've circled
and this device here,
thumbs up for everybody that thinks that this is on the same network.
Okay. If we got a couple of people.
Okay. Lots of thumbs. This is good.
So you guys are paying attention.
So the correct answer is yes.
These are absolutely on the same IP subnet, therefore,
the same network.
So therefore, your wiring guidelines that's in the existing Delta wiring
guidelines on how to build a IP network and set up your
network numbers, all of that is still valid.
It's not changed.
So thumbs up to I wanna get you
guys give me a thumbs up.
Is t one l a new form of
MSTP? Anybody that thinks it is, give me a thumbs up.
Oh, good. Okay.
Give me a thumbs up if you agree that t one l is just a
new way to carry Ethernet and IP.
Excellent. That's what I wanna see.
So t one l is not a faster MSTP.
T one l is an ability to carry your
IP Ethernet
over balanced twisted pair.
Thumbs up if you agree with this.
T one l and MSTP can exist on the same network cable.
Give me a thumbs up if you agree with that.
Oh, good. I've got scared faces. Good.
So, no, t one l,
MSTP cannot exist on the same network.
So and I'm gonna talk more about that in a in a second here.
I just wanna make that really clear.
And I saw one guy comment. Yeah.
No.
T one l is not that new, but it's new to us,
and it's gonna be new to you guys.
We've we've actually had our our eye on t one l for probably ten years,
easily ten years, but we waited to get
a read on where it was going.
And actually, to be quite honest,
we're waiting for costs,
to become reasonable to actually include it in our product.
So the benefits of t one,
I wanna go over a few things here because it's not just
magic in a box and there it's not like you still have
to do your due diligence and you still have to prepare your
site accordingly.
And I wanna be transparent with what we've encountered during
our development phase of the t one l products.
So there are some benefits of it.
This first one here, I take a little issue. Long cable runs.
Now they claim,
they the proverbial they claim that t one l stands for a
single twisted pair over long distances.
And the claim is that you can run up to one kilometer
between two peer devices.
So that's peer to peer, one kilometer.
In our experience, that's purely theoretical.
In our internal testing under pretty perfect conditions,
we have yet to achieve one kilometer between two devices.
We've successfully tested up to about six hundred meters
between two, peer to peer.
But, again, that's under perfect conditions.
That's under really controlled circumstances where we
don't have a lot of noise in the room and we just we're able
to run these long cables.
So we've tested up to six hundred meters,
but we're recommending keep your network still be
conservative in your network design between two devices.
We're recommending two to three hundred meters depending on what the
cable looks like.
Move your mic for me just a little bit.
I don't know if that's just me,
but yours is kinda you can't drop my voice.
Oh.
Can you guys give me a thumbs up if everybody else hears that
or if that's just my connection?
Okay. Try and, like, move your computer up and down.
Yep.
We got row robot, Andy.
Still robot?
Still robot. Just a little robot.
Okay. How about that?
Could just use I could just use my mic on my on my on camera then.
So it sounded how's that? Is that better?
Yes. All good.
Great. That's weird. Okay.
Let me go so let me rephrase the long cable run thing.
So
while we've successfully tested up to six hundred meters,
that's not the total network length, mind you.
That's just between two devices.
We're still derating what our we're still derating what
our recommendations are.
We think playing it safe is probably a better option.
Two two to three hundred meters peer to peer.
I mean, in a VAV network,
you're not gonna find very many VAV networks where it's three
hundred meters between two VAV boxes.
But who knows?
Maybe you will or maybe you wanna extend into a, you know,
another building or what have you.
So long cable runs, it's a bit of a controversial topic.
We've yet to see one kilometer in our own testing.
We've seen six hundred meters,
but we still think it's safer to recommend two to three hundred meters.
Truly, one of the benefits though,
t one l auto negotiating polarity, simple wiring.
Somebody made a comment I saw that popped up, regarding,
you know, some long networks were twisted or or the t one l
transceivers that we use are auto negotiating.
So you can actually flip the polarity and it'll and it'll
still communicate.
So that'll be a nice thing.
So for all your electricians out there that, you know,
have the fifty percent chance of getting it wrong,
when they wire it up,
it's not so much of an issue anymore with the t one l.
Full Internet compatibility at the at the MAC layer,
so that means you get all the benefits that you'd normally
get out of a standard Ethernet controller IP.
Backward integration,
you can reuse the existing MSTP cabling or long cabling if it will.
So we're getting ten megabits per second up to ten megabits
per second, meaning you can host graphics on the controller.
You get quicker firmware upgrades and better network performance.
And another,
result of this is also it's actually better for harsh environments.
T one l has better noise immunity as well.
So we've we don't have the same grounding issues that we would
have back in the MSTP days.
So it's kinda like you're getting your having your cake
and eating it too.
Now
the topology, these are all point to point connection.
No branches, no t's, no stars.
T one l does not support, multidrop.
You cannot star the network.
You have to do a site survey.
If you're gonna be quoting this on your job, go out there,
look at the wire, make sure you understand what that wiring is.
And if there are stars that you can find them and take them out
and resolve them.
So it's very important to know,
what that wiring looks like before you deploy the site.
Okay? Before you're, committed.
It does require a media converter,
so we've given you the CON t one l.
So that'll be required to bring that VAV network onto a
standard Ethernet network.
We're supporting up to sixty four devices per trunk.
So if you were to take an existing standard Delta MSTP
truck, a large one, we will support up to sixty four
devices in that trunk.
It's important to take pass through into consideration
when you're when you're looking at your maximum distance as well.
Remember we said, two to three hundred meters is recommended.
It'll break down, we think, after six hundred meters.
When you have a pass through,
if you have a device that drops offline,
the pass through closes,
that signal is no longer being rebuilt.
So you have to take that into consideration for the total
overall network length.
And we also have to take into consideration how many devices
in a row fail.
The one thing that does impact t one l stability is
your network impedance.
And we find that once this is getting a little techy.
Once we start exceeding, I think it's around fifty homes
total network impedance, it's either fifty or hundred.
I have to look that up.
The network actually will not slowly degrade.
It'll just stop working.
So even with the pass through devices,
plan ahead to make sure that if you're gonna have devices that
are dropping offline,
that you know how many devices in a row that you can have.
We we would typically recommend a maximum with three or four
devices that could fail in a row sequentially before the
network starts to break down.
And as I said,
the testing has shown up to six hundred meter total distance,
peer to peer, but we're recommending two to three hundred max.
These are the different types of wire that we've worked with.
So we've actually worked with Windy City Windy City and
Faster Cable as well that have kindly provided us cabling
to test on various different gauges and network and cable
types that we use in our internal testing.
So we've tested on, you know, standard echelon spec,
generic shielded, MSTP cable, non shielded comm wires.
These are all the different types of wire that we've,
tested on with varying different results.
These are published on our, install guide for t one l,
and that's gonna be a living document that we will continue
to update as we get more information,
moving into the future.
So the big push, like I mentioned to summarize,
is we wanna see t one l being used to secure those
legacy network runs without having to replace all that cable.
And it'll allow you to protect your building with BACnet SC,
a completely encrypted network right down to the terminal box level.
It's gonna give you IoT
capability right at that infrastructure as well.
And your your Red five VAV now access a BACnet secure
connect node, and each one of those devices can be a node,
you can have a completely encrypted network.
So some people have asked me at at conferences
or when I see them in person by the way,
I love seeing you guys in person.
So whenever we're at a conference together,
please feel free to come up and chat with me and talk shop.
I love it when we do that.
But one of the questions that came up is, well,
you guys have come up with this t one l device.
Why would you bother, you know,
coming out with a Red five field MSTP controller?
And as I mentioned previously,
there's still a need for MSTP out there.
We still
still I think approximately seventy percent of
all our, VAV controllers are still MSTP that we sell,
slowly going down.
The the Ethernet,
Red five VAV controller is starting to overtake that,
but we still see a significant number of MSTP devices out there.
So where I would use MSTP is, obviously,
if we have to reuse an existing MSTP infrastructure.
So if you're if you're doing a retrofit of a Delta site,
maybe a third party site,
but maybe you cannot do a full MSTP cutover.
Maybe you have to phase that cutover in and or maybe there's
third party by sitting on that network that cannot be swapped out.
That's the case.
You may wanna use MSTP just to keep that network going and
you'll be fine going into the future.
Like I said, the the field may be an MSTP controller,
but it's still got the power under the hood that it can grow
with the needs of your building.
Another thing is it it might be a cost sensitive thing too.
You know, we're looking at maybe a premium of a dollar
about, I don't know, twenty dollars per controller,
the difference between MSTP or maybe it's a little less,
fifteen to twenty dollars between MSTP and the t one l
controller or the Red five Edge Ethernet controller.
But, I mean, that adds up.
So if it's a costing
and lower bandwidth is acceptable,
then that's a perfect a perfect use case for MSTP controllers.
So they're still out there.
They're still doing their thing,
and I don't think MSTP is going away anytime soon.
I would like to see it go, but I don't think it is,
if I'm being honest.
So where do you wanna use Red five two point zero?
Well,
again, we're using existing infrastructure for sure.
That's its number one, it it's number one push.
And you're gonna use it in a situation where you can cut
off, cut over full MSTP network.
Meaning, you're gonna take out all the MSTP devices and replace them
all with t one l.
It's used when you require a modernization of services
available on that infrastructure.
Meaning, you can now get higher speed and more services available
without having to replace all infrastructure.
You use it when you need to have an encrypted secure
network via back that SC.
Use it if you wanna add IoT capability to that network and
any situation that you wanna take advantage of ten megabits per second.
That's really the difference of where you'd use MFTP versus,
t one l.
So what's next? What's coming down the line?
So who here, give me a thumbs up,
has heard of
IntelliZone?
Give me a thumbs up if you've heard of IntelliZone.
Lots of people have heard okay.
So over the last three, four years,
we've introduced a RED five IO controller that
replaces our legacy DAC and DSC.
We've released a RED five VAV
controller that'll start replacing our
legacy DVC and EZone VAV controllers.
The gap that we have is what are we gonna do with
unitary controllers, meaning our IntelliZone fan
coil controller and heat pump controller.
And that's the brand new program that I'm working on
right now with the team, the Red five unitary.
We're gonna do t one l IP Ethernet
just like we do with the VAV.
We're gonna do MSTP.
It'll support back to secure connect over IP.
So very, very similar to what we did with the VAV controller.
We're gonna do with the RED five unitary controller.
So we're gonna do a couple of variants.
We're gonna do a application specific
fan coil controller,
and they'll we'll we'll do that in two different models.
One that has three speed fan,
meaning it'll have onboard line voltage
relays, and we'll also do a model with analog
fan control for, like, ECM motors as well.
Same deal with supporting embedded graphics,
PG Python.
We're we're gonna have European centric products as well where
we have, line voltage power.
We'll also have the twenty four volt AC and DC models.
So this is all this is what we're we're going on, this year.
Target timeline, late twenty twenty six.
That's pretty ambitious, but it's still our target.
But we will probably see something in early twenty twenty seven.
And what's important for us here is is that this product is
designed for the application, not just the spec sheet.
We're not just trying to do a bare minimum to get products
out the door and and into specifications.
We wanna make sure that we're doing a product that's that's
useful that meets your guys' needs.
So these are our brand new renderings of it.
It might differ a little bit from what this looks like.
These guys are gonna have the onboard, removable,
connector block, terminal blocks just like the VAV controller does.
And, again, it'll come in with a dual Ethernet with pass through,
a dual t one l with pass through, and an MSTP model.
So keep an eye out for that in the next in the next year.
Now you guys can click these links here.
If you wanna click any one of these links,
they should take you to these pages.
If you wanna learn more about the red five family,
red five modules, the CON t one l,
or if you just wanna read off over what the whole red five
family, make sure you can you can click these links.
So maybe you wanna try it out right now.
I'll give you a second to do that before we go into the q and a.
Okay.
Has anyone tried?
Give me a thumbs up if you're able to hit,
try one of these links.
Good? I get a thumbs up. Good.
Okay. So let's do q and a.
We've got roughly eighteen minutes left.
It's actually a miracle I finished this on time Perfect.
Within two minutes.
So Perfect.
Okay.
So let's then I'll just yeah.
I can I either you just read them going straight down,
or I can read them to you,
whatever you Let me look at the top?
Let me see. How many do we get here? Quite a few. Okay.
So
Alex, Ramke said, for the red five VABs with t one
l with being Ethernet, will we still achieve the same speeds
we do typically with Ethernet cable?
Do we have to wire length limitations with t one l VABs
like we do with Ethernet,
or do we have improved installation lengths?
That is an excellent question.
I hope that you hopefully, my webinar answered that question,
but I'll reiterate it.
We so t one l ten base t one l is ten megabits per
second rather than a hundred megabits per second.
So it is it's slightly slower.
It's it's basically the same speed as our old DSCs
would do.
Ten megabits per second overbalanced,
twisted pair of cabling.
Do we have the same wire length limitations? No.
T one l wire length is longer than standard,
Ethernet. What is standard Ethernet?
It's three hundred feet.
Whereas, we can go up to we've tested up
to six hundred meters.
Andrew Little,
is the DVC formally end of life?
So the DVC three twenty two e,
the Ethernet DVC controllers, Andrew,
they're all end of life already.
We will be sending out an announcement that'll give you
the last time buy, last time ship for DVC products that'll
be starting in twenty twenty seven.
So we will be we yes.
We will be phasing those controllers out over the next year.
This time next year will probably be around the the last time ship.
So q two twenty twenty seven will be the end of of the DVC
twenty two, DVC product line, MSTP and Ethernet.
Actually
okay.
Let's see. I gotta find another question here.
Probably the next one is that need to add the stack
configuration tab with the air balance tab and configuration.
Is that a Oh, yeah.
You know, that's a good that's a good that's more of a statement than a question.
Yeah.
We we're gonna we are working on our new
embedded graphics for the VAV controllers.
Actually, all, v four IP controllers will be supporting,
embedded graphics, this summer.
We're already looking at the prototypes.
We're about to go to beta probably the next month and a bit.
So that gives us the opportunity to build proper
configuration and balancing pages as well.
Do red do red five Ethernet devices
support eight zero eight zero two point one f?
So that that's a oh my god.
That's gonna take another webinar.
The we're we are working on that,
and I'm gonna leave it at that.
We are working on it.
K.
IPV controllers have special requirements for switches?
No. They don't.
We so Delta v four controllers,
IP based v controllers are a hundred megabits per second
max.
So, basically, any standard IT switch will
will be able to you know,
you can have those net controllers on that network.
T one l, the only special requirement you need for a t
one l controller is to add the con t one l or other media converter.
So you need to convert the t one l to standard Ethernet or
IP.
K.
Next one down is probably the when are we gonna get the
service tool to connect the RedPipe field controllers?
It's funny how we have this question come up in a
DV webinar, and we're asking about a completely
unrelated product.
You're gonna get it
imminently.
Soonest. Tool. Yeah. The service tool is complete.
We're just right now wrapping up the paperwork to send out
the release notification on it.
Is there any concern You know what?
Hold on a second.
You guys asked a question about an unrelated product in the webinar.
I just told you you're getting it.
Can I at least get a little bit of hoopla about it?
There it is. Look at them all.
Look at the hearts.
I know. It's about bloody time, isn't it?
I know. I know. That's why. Too angry.
I'm surprised I don't see any angry faces in there.
I'd expect more
Alan, do you actually have something to say on that one?
No. He didn't. Okay. Okay.
Next one's probably, is there a concern with having all the
power on the field VAV running on MSTP?
Will the network communication suffer, etcetera?
******* having all the power running MSTP.
Well, network communication.
Yeah.
Do you mean by the actual I'm not sure I understand the question.
Like, do we mean how we're powering the controllers or the actual
power of the processor and memory?
If it's the latter, no.
Because we I mean, MSTP is still MSTP,
and you still have to follow our guidelines on how you would
deploy an MSTP network.
You know, you wanna restrict the amount of data exchange it can do.
I mean, they they have more power than the DDC controller,
obviously, hundred hundreds of times more power,
but MSTP is still MSTP.
You've only got as much bandwidth as it can handle.
You know, a highway can handle much more traffic than a side road can.
MSTP is your side road compared to a interstate freeway.
So you're still limited to the bandwidth with MSTP,
but that doesn't really factor into what what the
controller power can do unless you, you know,
you're overdoing your MSTP network.
Will there be an actuator list version of the red five
VAV controller for instances that require specialized actuators?
That's a great question.
Thank you for that, Kelly.
The answer is yes, but not quite yet.
We have to work on a few other things first.
But, yes, the plan is to also release a red five
controller that can have an external actuator.
One of the the perks that we're getting out of building the
unitary controller is everything is gonna start
converging on similar technology, the same
architecture from, you know, controller architecture.
I mean, the actual, circuits and processing power and all that.
So once we have that platform in place,
we can kinda build any sort of product on top of that platform.
It allows us to move a lot quicker because we're not redesigning,
you know, the brains of the controller every time.
So, yes, it's a huge thing that I wanna do is a Red five
VAV controller without an actuator,
but it'll probably be after the unitary program.
Lawn works also has mixed wiring, not only daisy chain,
but free topology.
So t one l also free topology. No.
I hope my webinar answered that too.
You have to return number one, you have to re terminate.
So you can't start you can't have t's or stars or
free topologies.
It is a point to point connection
that is going through path through the, the the t one l,
transceivers that we have on the controller is basically a t one l switch.
Think of it as just a standard switch.
So the controller is now,
navigating that network traffic.
So, no, you cannot have mixed wire.
You can't have t's or stars or anything like that.
The one thing t one l can do is detect
the polarity.
From network standpoint,
are the two segments downstream of t one l separate segments?
Does heavy traffic on one segment,
impede traffic on another?
That's a great question.
So from a networking standpoint,
that network drawing I showed you let me see if I can find it here.
I'll go back to that drawing. Where is it?
Right here.
These devices are all on the same network.
Even on this t I kinda drew this t one l network kind of in
a funny way just to illustrate the capabilities of the the con t one l.
But all of these devices are wired in a fashion
that they're on the same IP subnet.
So, yes, heavy traffic could impact,
the entire network on a flat that's why we're coming up with
new, networking guidelines to give you guys best practices
for, flat networks, things like restricting broadcast.
Make sure your BDE controllers or your BDE objects are set up correctly.
Don't be broadcasting data for BDEs.
Make sure that you only have
a one to many for transmission,
not a many many to transmit and receive,
things like that to help reduce heavy traffic.
Greg has written, can you write to AVs, BDs,
or MVs or PGs from the Python environment?
That's a really good question too.
The answer to that is yes and no.
Python is not designed to do control algorithms.
It's not fast enough the way it interacts with BACnet.
In the future, we are planning on bringing that capability to the,
to the Python environment.
But there's a lot of technical work we have to do in order to get there.
So, yes, it can actually write to an AV.
I I use it for writing, like,
weather data to a CSV or into AV description
field, but it's slowly it's slow and
it's not designed to do control algorithms,
but we would like to get there.
You can't use a cannot use a PG Python,
a Python program to write to an external PG either.
Those those PGs are their own
independent units, if you will.
Next one down is about the expected date for PG Python to
come out or feature Oh, to come out of a preview feature?
Yeah. If it were up to me, it'd be now.
But we're still doing we're what we're doing the reason why
it's still a preview is we're ensuring that there's
still guardrails on it to make sure that we understand all the
the the rules and limitations and boundaries around it.
We also are trying to develop a library,
from a lot of our beta testers and internally that so that we
can provide those libraries back to you guys so that you actually have
proper use cases and useful information that you can
employ with PG Python.
So
I believe once we have all that,
I still think we're targeting this summertime to take to
officially have it in release grade.
But I have to actually verify that with the firmware
development team.
It's pretty it's getting pretty mature now,
so we're getting closer.
But it won't be earlier than summer, put it that way.
Right. Right. A lot of comments about my robot voice.
I was probably an improvement, guys, to be honest.
Technician tool.
Yeah.
I mean, god, you don't wanna hear my
weasley voice.
Any recommendations for replacing a few VAV MSTP
devices and then eventually upgrading the entire subnet to t one l?
Oh, that's a good one.
How can I illustrate this? Yes.
I do have a recommendation for it. Thanks, Greg. Hey, Greg.
How are you? I haven't seen you in a long time.
What you could do is you upgrade part of the network
with t one l, but then you have to put a
you would have to put, like,
a half router in there to take like,
you probably have to put a a plus controller on t one l as
well that would pick up any remaining MSTP devices that you
have that you couldn't cut over.
So you'd have to separate the network.
You do part of the network in t one l with a plus controller in
there that maybe picks up the remaining MSTP.
Either that or if you have a way to run the last chunk of
MSTP devices back to the home controller,
you would have to do that as well.
We cannot mix and match them.
You missed one on there about the technician tool for
connecting to red five fields ETP.
I just answered that.
So the red the technician tool is coming out, like, in Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Two weeks.
Not even. A week. I I think May seventh.
We I think we have the May seventh date for the
announcement to come out.
Yep. It's just in paperwork right now.
Rob Luke is saying, if you have an EV manager
or Red Flag Plus with MSTP DVCs under it,
you are changing VEVs out one at a time.
Is there a reason you couldn't temporarily connect the t one
l, that one to the MSTP bus.
And then once they are changed out, move the wire.
I think that goes back
yeah.
I know what Rob's asking.
He wants kind of t one l and
MSTP on the same controller and switch it out.
We don't have that yet.
You'd have to do it where you split the network, Rob.
Again, you have to take the MSTP,
separate that back to net two,
and then take your cat five out to a con t one l and then take
that to your t one l network.
Jeremy is asking, does it work over eighteen gauge wire? Yes.
We've actually tested over eighteen gauge wire,
and it seems to not all eighteen gauge wire is is the same.
So you do have to do a you you do have to
observe the site, take a look at the quality of the wire,
the state of the you know, what state it's in.
We did a, case study,
where we wired up our entire network basically over eighteen gauge.
But we've had mixed we've had mixed success on it.
Some eighteen gauge wire hasn't worked well.
Some gate eighteen gauge wire has worked okay.
And it comes down to what that cable impedance is typically.
We found that the most suitable wire is actually twenty two
gauge has given us the best results in our testing.
Isaiah Isaiah Blanco says, dZNR device for boosting network
length over sixty four devices.
No.
That will not work.
There will no be no device for boosting the network length
over sixty four devices on a t one l network.
I would say that sixty four devices is even pushing it.
We support it, but, I mean,
that's the maximum that we support for MSTP.
That's what we test with.
So the maximum devices we test our t one l networks is sixty four devices.
So that's what we limit our support to.
Sixty four device oh, this is a great question.
Christopher McLeod asked, sixty four devices is the max,
but what is the recommended number for a run?
I guess it's gonna that that question is gonna come down to
it's gonna have to come down to that saying your mileage may vary.
A lot of companies,
I worked for a company where they didn't like to have MSTP
networks over thirty two devices.
So they limit no matter what we said, they said, nope.
We're never building an MSTP trunk over six thirty two devices.
T one l, I would think it's probably the same thing.
Your limitation is how long is the complete network?
How long is it between devices?
And
what kind of quality is is the wire?
So I would say if you if your company likes to play
conservative, you could say, well,
recommended devices is thirty or thirty two.
We test with sixty four over various different wire engages.
And then John here actually said same as MSTP.
Thirty two to forty looks good for a solid network.
I'm going with max fifty.
So it's not an exact science, but John's playing it sick.
He's playing it conservative,
which is which is totally a good thing to do because it
costs less money in the long run when you play it
conservative rather than push it.
Real quick, Andy.
We are Oh my god.
There's so many questions.
On our time. Yeah. That's okay. No problem.
So we'll go through and we'll just continue to answer these questions,
but I just wanted to let everybody know again just so
you are aware this will all still be recorded,
and I will compile all these q and a's and send it out to you.
So if you have to run and your question has not been answered,
we will still keep going through them.
So keep it moving, Andy. We got this.
Okay. Yeah. Anybody who wants keep up, go ahead.
I I understand completely. We're at eleven.
So there are a couple of questions here
that I do wanna address.
So Donald Schroeder asked, can the CON t one l be installed
midsegment on the t one l network allowing for four
separate segments to branch off from it?
So I'm guessing if we look at at this
network here where I've added
a con t one I've sort of done that right here with these devices.
I've I've taken a t one l network.
I've branched off of the t one l network,
and I've gone cat five up to a red five edge controller.
So, yeah, you could you could do that,
but you would probably have to lay the network out in a in a
logical fashion so that it's still easy to follow and
is serviceable.
Andrew Little said,
what do you do if you have switches that do not support ten meg anymore?
It doesn't impact t one l because you're going through a
con t one l.
So the con t one l supports ten one hundred on
the cat five side.
How do the firmware updates for the field devices over the
network performed terribly?
We are working on I'm I'm good. I'm not in sales guys.
I'm gonna tell you guys the real
so firmware upgrades over MSTP,
especially in the v four landscape,
are a lesson in patients quite
literally because we're talking firmware files that are now
twenty four or twenty five megabytes compared to back in
the DSC DAC days where they're, like,
twenty four kilobytes.
So we're talking, you know,
hundreds or thousand times size difference in file size,
and we're running over seventy six eight.
So firmware is an item of contention internally here.
Know it is amongst you guys as well.
There's a couple of things you could do.
For now,
we're working on firmware broadcasts.
So basically, what that means is you can broadcast the
firmware update onto an MSTP network
and it'll update every single device at once.
And you basically just tell it what network you wanna update.
So what that means is if it took three hours to upgrade one device,
it'll also take three hours to upgrade all of the devices
because they're all gonna upgrade at the same time,
but you'll never be less than three hours, essentially.
The other thing that we're working on right now,
it's ongoing development.
It has been for probably the last year,
is the differential firmware.
So that means that rather than sending the whole entire
firmware file, we just send the what's changed in the binary.
And that should give us a lot more
efficiency when we're transferring that firmware file.
So it's not great right now,
but we are working on ways to improve it.
The other thing that you can do to hold you over until we have
all that stuff released is to do the dual mode firmware update.
So, basically,
plan for a firmware update before you get to site if you
have access to this site, remote access.
Do the staged update, which means you upload the firmware
file to each controller ahead of time,
and it just sits in its flash memory.
It doesn't actually deploy the firmware,
and it doesn't impact the functionality of the controller.
It doesn't disrupt the network or anything like that.
And it'll just upload all those firmware files however long it takes.
And then when you get to site,
all you have to do is tell the controller to use that new
firmware file.
So that's one thing you can do for now until you
until you're, we have those new methodologies
of firmware loading.
I'm just racing here.
Probably all the way down to can NFC be removable for jobs
that don't allow it.
Oh, where is that? Yes. Can it okay.
Thank you, Darren.
I think it's like you're an you're you're a plant,
an audience plant, So you'll get me to plug our new controller.
Watch for an announcement in the next couple of days.
We are releasing the new red five secured facility models
that'll have NFC and BLE removed
from the controller.
So that'll be the new red five secondurity facility.
You should see an announcement go up Friday, actually.
It would have gone up today, actually,
but we're still waiting for some, paperwork to be, filed.
Okay.
I'm just gonna skip over some of these questions.
Can you please share the future plans for the DVCPoe controllers?
That's a good question.
Is there a red five replacement coming,
and will POE remain an option for VAV controllers?
So the plan is this,
the DVC PoE controllers will not go anywhere until we have a replacement.
So, power over Ethernet DVC will be the only one that we
don't obsolete.
Yes.
There will be a replacement coming
in red five world,
but we just have to schedule it in to work on it.
But we are planning on doing a power over Ethernet model of red five.
Okay.
Does it work on an eighteen dash two shielded wire,
so not a big network?
Yeah. We it does.
Again, it it comes down to the quality of the wire and the distance.
So you'll have to look at if you could get the wire specs to
make sure that the overall line impedance isn't over a hundred
ohms, I believe it it should work okay.
Again, it it comes down to going to site and doing a site survey
and maybe even getting a picoscope and testing the cable
out and looking for reflections and that kind of thing.
Ryan, said, can you explain a bit how to troubleshoot the t one l or
edge networks with Wireshark under back that secure connect?
Actually, that's a good question, Ryan. Hey, Ryan.
Good to see you. That's good that you're here.
We're we've got Wireshark built into the controllers now, and
we are working on having the ability to,
take captures of encrypted traffic,
but it's not something that is actually I have to look and see
where we are with it with the firmware team.
But, yes, that is coming.
And right now, Wireshark is built right into the controller.
Sarah Sarah Smith is asking,
is embedded graphics like the etouch saving a graphic into
the controller along with the database?
Actually, so the embedded graphics will work in a similar fashion.
You will load the graphic the controller graphic into an
FIL object, and that FIL object is part of the database.
So if you save the controller database out,
you'll save the graphics with it.
So if you do, again, a VAV network, for instance,
you could take that single database with a graphic in it
and deploy it to all of your VAV controllers.
Corey asks, are there any updates or timelines with regards to
refresh the Intellibus platform?
Stay tuned for a separate webinar on that.
That's a a big question.
There are plans to refresh the Intellibus system.
Exactly what that all entails kinda out of scope of what I
wanted to get into this because it's a big rabbit hole.
Question two, any plans to release an HOA version of the red five module?
Yes.
Question three, when will the twenty four VAC power supply
for the red five modules be released?
We actually wanted to release it in April this month,
but we found a bug with it that may that meant
that we had fixed the bug,
and then we missed the firmware release train for four twenty.
So we have to catch the four twenty one release train.
So the, Red five expand o four ACDC
will be released with four twenty one this summer.
Are we anywhere near releasing red five plus RTR with two
separate Ethernet ports?
Actually, I've just started working on the product definition for that.
So we are getting there.
It's not going to be tomorrow,
but we are working on the definition of it right now as I speak.
In fact, if I wasn't in this webinar,
I'd be working on that.
So if the actuator part dies on the red flag VAV,
do we have to replace the whole thing?
Yes. It'll have to go to RMA. It's not field replaceable.
Okay. Let's just get I gotta get through here.
Do you offer development or lab box kit that includes
controllers and telepromp?
Do we like, if they're asking if we have a prebuilt demo box
Oh.
Do.
That's a good thing.
You want, like, a a even like a training kit or a
so there's two answers to that.
Yeah. We actually do need a good marketing kit.
So that's something that is on a to do list for us.
We do we do have, IntelliCloud,
and we have,
Canvas that allows to build up
offline networks if well, not offline.
The network is online, but it's not in production.
So you can still, build your databases through that.
We also have what is it called?
The, Delta training
it was a Delta training device.
You can online ordering.
It's called the DTD,
and that's like a little mini IO board that sort of mimics a
fan coil controller with actual IO ports and a fan and
everything on it.
You can get that on online ordering,
you can connect that to any controller as well to work with
a, to do any offline programming.
But I think we should incorporate that into That's a good idea.
Yep.
Lyle says I can send a picture of the Ducon BT for proof.
Thanks, Lyle.
I know.
So Picture is different.
You guys are comedians.
I'm gonna do one more question,
and then we're gonna call it because there's, like,
a lot of these are just sort of replicating.
Oh, yeah.
I wanna I I really wanna keep answering these questions
regarding stability of of the network.
John asks, have you used unshielded wire with success?
Are you confident in your sixty four controller limit using
unshielded twenty two gauge wire?
There's a lot to unpack in that one.
So we actually have various
different types of wire on our internal test wall where we're
running sixty four controllers.
We're confident in our test wall. It's running really well.
It's running constantly.
It's been running for several months,
but every site is different.
So, again, it comes down to verifying the cable and verifying the
feasibility of that cable.
We have tested on unshield cable.
Maybe Lyle, if he's still here, could chime in.
He's the guy that tested it.
So it would come down to
verifying that wire on-site and and testing it out.
Bring your picoscope
and verifying how that cable's functioning.
Like, you have to it's good to know what the specs are on that wire.
We're gonna do as much as we can to publish
our internal test results so that we're transparent and you
know what we've tested with and what works.
So,
you know, we're trying to max out like, we you know,
we're using different gauges of wire in our own wall,
which is never a recommended thing just to stress test it.
So we're relatively common.
You know, we're confident in our sixty four device controller limit,
but as always, I mean,
your mileage may vary with the wire that's on-site,
and that's even true with MSTP.
We gotta make sure that the that the network itself is is
healthy and the topology is correct.
There's no t's, no stars, etcetera.
So there is work to be done when you deploy this stuff.
Okay.
T one l ring topology. Apologies.
We already answered this in the previous response.
No.
We do not support t one l in a ring topology at this time.
That can be something we would have to look into.
It's a good it's a good feature request, actually.
But there are, bypass relays to keep the network alive in the
in the loss of a device.
When will a t one l version of the non VAV red five edge
controllers be released?
Yes.
I would like to do t one l in all of our IP based
controllers eventually.
We're focusing on the application specific unitary first.
But, yeah, I think that's a great question.
That's something that we would like to do as well.
Someone asked if power polarity was still a problem.
Does does that ring a bell?
Yeah.
It really I mean, if they're sharing the same power,
you you have to maintain polarity on power always.
Okay.
That's a good question.
It has to make my job easy by asking good questions.
If I have a red five plus at the end of a line,
can I connect a con t one l to carry out the t one l b a b?
I'm assuming if it's a the end of a,
cat five network, then, yep, yeah, you could,
you could add a con t one l to that.
And
I think she's asking for comparison between Johnson
Controls and Allerton.
Oh,
that'll be up to us.
That's a that's a product management job.
That should be something that I have to do.
Yeah.
I think we would actually, I think you did one, didn't you?
We did. Mark we did we haven't published it.
We no. It's published. We have it.
We have the comparison of us versus Honeywell slash Allerton,
but I don't believe Johnson Controls at the time that I did
it had a t one l offering.
So I'm not sure if they still do.
But, yeah, it was Allerton's was not
any third party devices.
So they just had it on board,
so they did not have the equivalent of the Conn t one l.
So you could only use it within their EcoStruxure.
But it was essentially the same thing because it's the same technology.
So they still have ten base t one l. So.
Okay. Well, it's eleven fifteen.
Everybody that stuck around, I really, really appreciate it.
Thank you so much for joining us today.
I it's all I know you guys are busy and you got a million things to do.
So I always love it when I get to to interact with you.
And I I really,
really appreciate you guys taking the time to to join us today.
As always, you guys know how to get a hold of me,
and I love hearing from you.
That's it.
Thank you very much. Yep. That's perfect.
All of this will come out to you guys within the next week or so.
We really appreciate it.
Again, those of you who stuck around, thank you so much.
We also will be having our next webinar, May twenty first.
So everybody come see what that's all about.
There's good stuff with Sentra and Milsight,
some some interesting products there.
So we'll see you all soon. Appreciate it. Thanks, Andy.
Cheers, guys. Thanks, Emily, for all your help.
Bye, everyone. Bye.